Chapter 9 offers a detailed analysis of Philebus 42c–47d. Here, after first discussing a neutral state between pleasure and pain, Socrates introduces some ‘stroppy’ characters (duschereis) who are said to bear witness to the fact that there are some states that only seem to be pleasures, but aren’t so in reality, and others that have the appearance of enormous size, but which in truth are commingled with pain. This chapter (inter alia) sketches Socrates’ argument concerning the neutral state, explores the view that he wishes to attribute to the ‘Stroppies,’ explains how he employs their arguments and methodology, provides a reconstruction of an important missing part of their argument concerning the view that pleasure doesn’t really exist, explains how Socrates’ own account contrasts with that of the Stroppies, and explores the notions of false pleasure/pain in play in this part of the Philebus.